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This is a great video and as someone that teaches this to churches, I am impressed. I wish you could add more graphics and hands on stuff instead of just a talking head, but hopefully, the folks that watched this got the methods. Well done!

I am a bass player running sound for the band on performances with no provided sound. This is helpful as I use a Soundcraft 24r w/Ipad to mix. I have a problem with boominess from the bass and bass drum. I am guilty of lowering the faders to balance the volume in the room. Just getting into the sub mix as a tool! Thank you! Question, how can I combat boominess on the bass to get a clear sound? I set the gain, then the fader is always low before to boom stats, so I lower the fader and use the HPF to roll off at 100 HZs to lower the boom!

Does anyone consider that the music IS TOO Quiet? Turn it down and ask those if they would like it louder. Why are church leaders asked to turn it down? Maybe because it is too loud. Let’s start low and work our way up. Let those who can’t “feel” the music be those asking for more volume. Most UA-cam seem to be on the “ it is fine” program. Someone should honestly come out with a UA-cam about the music being too quiet. I don’t need to “ feel the music” I need to participate with the music not compete with it

I always maintain proper gain levels start before the signal even leaves the stage. No point setting gain level on a singer holding the mic 2feet away and singing like a sparrow. Why would I set gain on a keyboard that the output level is only at 25%. Rule 1 get the best possible source, takes time and trust. Rule 2 then set gain. Gain staging starts on the stage. So I spend a third of my setup time on the stage with my tablet in hand, getting my team bedded in. I’ll get them to turn up their level, keyboard, guitar, bass, (they all do now) or get their nose on the microphone, and let them see me altering gain. The team see me working with them not against them and it fills them with confidence they relax. Secretly I’m teaching them how it all fits together. Then I have what I need, I leave them to set their own monitor mix and rehearse. I get on with my bit. They get compliments on the worship, they’re giving me a smile and a thumbs up as they leave. We don’t have a tech team. The sound engineer is listed on the worship team. Ok bottom of the list but somebody has to be. 😂

As a very old analog jockey, I have a few points to make. On many consoles, the solo button can be used to route the signal to the main meters whilst keeping the fader at infinity. And then set the pre-amp gain to an optimal setting. When I teach gain structure, I pull out a schematic of a consoles' signal path and focus on the pre-amp module and discuss the options available (pad, phantom, phase revers and the triangular representation of the gain amp). Mic level in, line level out. And then follow the signal through the rest of the channel, keeping EVERYTHING at unity. In practice, a mic level tone oscillator at the input, should produce a -20dbfs (or 1.23 volts or 0VU) at the final output. I always kept my sub-group faders at unity during sound check and at the start of the show. Then, if there was a drum solo, I could ever-so-slightly push that sub group up. I could easily control the backing vocals or the horn section. All the things you mention about the channel fader resolution also apply to the sub-group and main faders. You need to take your explanation gain structure all the way to the speakers and include cross-overs and amps. Turn your amps all the way down. Run some pre-recorded music through your console, making sure it is properly gain-structured and is hitting the final output meters at an acceptable level. Now, start slowing turning up your amps until you get the desired volume in the room. Too many people start by turning the amps to 10 and then wonder why your method makes things too loud. If you're running a 3 way speaker system, start by turning up the low amps until it feel right in the room. Then, turn up the mids until it compliments the low end. Then turn up the highs until you get the right amount of crispness desired. You have now done the gross EQ for the room and the system. Any fine tuning of the room EQ is then handled by the 1/3 octave EQ (post the main faders and pre the amps).

No amount of complaints work at my church,,i just stay in my car till the preaching starts,,problem solved for me. Ha and i was in a rock band for years

I have an idea. Lower the volume. Problem solved.

Well none of that matters when you're stuck mixing before the fader. Just use the damn tool that's given to you and stop worrying about where the fader lives!...

Our Church sound is over 100 db is this bad ?

This is GREAT stuff!

Great! thank you

the problem is: i like my subs working around 0db. VCA (DCA) was the anwser for me

Hi. Great work on the vid. It's some useful info. I got a question. I am in a 4 pc band ( no drums) do we need to set gain everything time we setup amd do soundtrack? Or can we just use our settings from rehearsal and adjust when we setup at a gig. Thanks a ton.

what if the venue is outdoors?

Wondering if you would use DCAs in the same way?

Do you also aim for the signal of the master LR mix to be in the yellow / unity too so the master fader is at unity?

WSG I have a livewire snake with combo jacks Can I put a line level 1/4 into the combo jack then use an XLR TO 1/4 adaptor to put it into a Boards stereo line level channels?

Is a VCA the same as the sub group?

So couple tips, take em or leave em: -Move your de-esser in front of your compressors. Why would you want to accentuate the parts of the vox you’re trying to reduce, before you try to reduce them? -Drum samples??!! 😬Just to get your kit to sound good? I would be dodging sticks from our drummers if I did that. Use parallel compression on your drums to get them to come through. If you still can’t get the sound ur looking for use torque to tweak the tone then smack attack for the punch. Tweak a reverb (H-verb), dial it in, for the room vibe your looking for. I get it if your looking for a particular sound for a specific song but just for the kit itself? Where’s the concern of morality for an Instrument? God gave us drums too. It’s like using a backing track on your vocal, it’s only 70/30, 😂 I believe in you! You’re better than that, I’m praying for ya.

Great video! Definitely guilty of the drastic eq you were discussing at the end. The channel on our headset mic isn’t even getting into the yellow but still needs those big cuts to keep it tame in the room. Is there a better solution besides just having low gain? Perhaps something at the receiver of the headset?

Great explanation of the proper operation of a mixer. Console operates best with faders at unity. This has been my contention all along, as one can immediately hear when the console is not getting (or getting too much of) what it needs.

Very good explanation about how this works. MOST people at churches behind the board have no idea about this and need to watch this!

Great video

This is fantastic information - I was puzzling between a DCA and a Subgroup to make this work correctly- I am having to run my Subgroup master faders quite low on the console (around -20 db) - Is this normal? Or is it perhaps that there is to much power in the PA itself, and this needs to be adjusted down?

Can I ask you : 1. Can Fourier be programmed offline? 2. Can I use 1 Fourier for 3 mixers at the same time? 3. When buying Fourier, is any software included?

more and more of these interviews....👏👏👏

Gene is just the BEST guy! Thanks again for coming on the podcast!

It is worth Allen and heath giving to us for free. D pack free please

I was stunned as to how well the Beta 87a rejected the drums with it being a condenser. I thought that even with it tighter pickup, with it still be a condenser, the drums would have been a mess inside the mic’s pickup; but it wasn’t. Can anyone explain this?? I had always ignored using the 87a on loud stages, with what I just heard; should the 87a be reconsidered in a loud stage?

Quick question, if you used an effect on the mains, like a compressor, would there be any disadvantages to lowering the output that way so the volume is correct in the room?

There's more noise floor on the SM57. 😮

Okay so my drummer has a D4 would he be in one subgroup in the bass player being one subgroup and the acoustic guitar player being one subgroup and then the praise and worship team being one subgroup pastors lapel being one subgroup and the piano being a one subgroup is that how I'm understanding it?

Huge difference!

On Superack I don’t know how to have Bus for vocals, fx etc.. is possible??

What if I turn down the trim knob? Is the same thing of turn down the group?

At last a video where the subject is well explained. Seems like you have watched the "Where did 0dB go?" Video by Robert Scovill, which I can highly recommend. Thank you.

While it's true that using the subgroups (or DCAs) this way to keep proper gain structure at the inputs, and channel faders riding 'around' unity, works... And for an installed system with volunteers that maybe shouldn't be messing with things at a system level is not a bad approach up front... But... Technically, if a properly gained channel cannot have it's channel fader getting anywhere near unity without being WAY too loud, and everything on the console seems normal (no excess makeup gain on compressors, no double-assignments, no DCAs accidentally dimed, master level at 'normal'...)... Then that is pretty much a case where a system tech needs to evaluate system gain after the console. Of course, always starting with looking at things within the console to make sure everything is as it's supposed to be. Especially since we're talking a house system where all the gear stays the same versus a provided rig (rax and stax) where an act might be bringing in their own console on a revolving menu of of amps and speakers for each show. So for an installed rig, if the staff isn't all that technically savvy, there's nothing really wrong with just adjusting at the main fader as a quick fix versus adding subgroups or DCAs into the equation that weren't already there. In fact, there are some good reason why that might even be a better approach. Let's say there's a stream mix on a matrix off the main L-R bus. Assuming it's tapped pre fader (as it likely should be for a stream from the mains) then turning the main down will not at all change the signal going to the stream. Adding subgroups between the channels and the main out will be choking things back before the main bus and so the stream matrix will get a weaker signal. But ultimately, if we're talking major amounts of pulling things back (whether channels, subgroups, DCAs, or mains) to get a tolerable level in an installed PA, than that's really a good time to get a tech onsite to evaluate the system gain. If it's just a case of one channel being really loud and everything else is OK at 'around' unity... then that is odd. The faders of course need to be where they need to be for a solid mix, but for one thing to be that far off unity when everything else is OK kind of points to some type of problem with the channel (double bus assignment, makeup gain cranked on a compressor... etc...). Or something really loud onstage. And in that case, it probably doesn't even need to be in the PA ;)

What’s with that loud incessant drum beating noise?

I've been doing live sound for 20 years and I really enjoyed watching your video looking forward to being able to use you to help train my team at church

Thanks bro, what apps other apps are used to help us in mixing

Like you said at approximately 10:00 ... is what I consider the most likely place to start, use fewer microphones and only use microphones with 30 dB off axis rejection, which rules out a wast collection of 'condensers, and to the problem with lack of headroom, it has to do with being too shy with the low cuts applied, forcing the mixers channelstrips into saturation.

Thanks for the tip. But couldn’t you have said this in 2 minutes?

If the purpose of the music is to worship God, we need to remember he is not deaf. Very loud church music is entertainment, not worship.

I used to run sound for a small church way back in the 1980's. The console I had was a Peavey 10 channel analog unit, with way fewer bells and whistles than the consoles I see being featured in the tutorial videos I have been watching lately. Needless to say, there was no such thing as a digital mixer back then! My pastor gave the simplest, and most straight-forward advice: "The goal is to make the sound natural, but only louder." That advice worked for me throughout the years I was doing it. I didn't have fancy instruments, meters, and computer programs to achieve the perfect mix; instead, I used the most technologically advanced tools ever given to man by God--my ears! I listened carefully during sound check and took suggestions from the musicians and singers--and followed the pastor's advice. In all those years I do not recall ever really having anyone in the congregation complain that the sound was too loud. I guess I was doing something right! I must, however, take issue with your assertion that 95 dB is "safe." First of all, "safe" and "comfortable" are not necessarily the same thing. As a sound engineer in a church, it is imperative that you keep the sound levels at a "worshipful" level (whatever that is). (One of my biggest issues where I now attend is that often the vocals are lost amid the instruments. It's hard enough to sing along when every song is one that I have never sung before, without the extra aggravation of not being able to hear the singers over the instruments!) You should take into account for the fact that older members of the congregation will hear sounds different than will younger members. You are going to have to strike up a happy medium--a mix that is pleasant to "most" of the people in the room. If it is not perfect, so be it. After all, you are not mixing a rock concert; you are mixing a worship service. Just because you "can" push levels to 95 dB, doesn't necessarily mean that you "should"! I am used to talking about dB SPL, so maybe that is where some of my confusion with what you are saying comes in. I recently worked 17 years as a baggage handling system repair technician at an airport. Our management told that us we had to wear ear protection when we were in any area the sound exceeded 85 dB SPL. That basically meant we had to wear ear plugs all the time when we were outside. My point is, how can 95 dB be called "safe" when anything over 85 dB is considered "unsafe"? What am I missing here? How does 95 dB, peak relate to 85 dB SPL? (It's all right if you don't answer; I know how to "Google." I will find the answer. Thanks!)

But using subgroups will create the same scenario as lowering the LR bus? Just use DCAs and digitally trim the master down...

Good video ... though it's always best to show it on the mixer of what you talking about. Explain and show works best as a teacher learner in music. Cut out the too much talk .

4:20 you're welcome

I’m thinking on investing in a solo but there’s something that’s keeping me away from this decision.. I’ve seen many groups online talking about problems with the Avantis failing mid show: either freezing and passing audio but faders not responding or orher issues in that line: have you really used it day in and day out to try its reliability? I’ll be using it even outside in the miami weather. How are they with working in hot weather?

As a DigiCo user, this is great. If anything, the competition is needed. Seems like they took all of the complaints from Waves over the years and improved on all of them. Can't wait to get this added on my rig.

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